It*s me again! Need more help. Decided to post again.
Submitted by MouseyMouse on Mon, 05/15/2006 - 09:27.
".. I find I often do the lines and my writer often does the visuals..."
lol lol lol Ah.. Classic. *Scuse me while i *powder my nose*.
MouseyMouse, I wouldn*t recommend trying to oversell yourself in an interview. I can understand how you can*t seem to decide whether to be a writer or AD. However, it is wisest to choose the one in which you can be in your element. Loving to write doesn*t mean you can do it well and the same applies to doing visuals. Recognise where your strength lies and work on that.
If you go in as a writer, for example, you will have ample time in your career to prove your ability to contribute visually and vice versa. As a newbie to the industry, you need to have focus. Only then, can you diversify. Going in trying to prove that you can do both only shows that you don*t know what you*re really good at and that you can*t really make firm decisions. One would expect you to already know what you want to do at the interview stage. As a potential employer, I*ll see that as a warning sign and you won*t get the job.
Creative teams need to work together. Simply saying that the writer writes and the art director makes it pretty is a sign of a mediocre team that merely exists just to get the job done. Good creative partners have equal share in whatever job they*re handling. They are honest with each other and can constructively contribute to making the campaign/ad even better. There*s nothing more annoying than a partner who really doesn*t care all that much once his primary responsibilities have been carried out.
Learn the business well before you try spreading yourself across the 2 disciplines. There are only a very few people out there that can handle both and excel in them. And even then, they didn*t start out trying to do both at the same time. Only experience and time can give you that kind of training and exposure, so for now, just pick the one that suits you best, jump in and start swimming.
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Hello all,
You were all a great help and all of you contributed a wealth of info, but I still think maybe I am not being clear about my concerns. Please be gentle with me as I am still new to this I (I don*t mind constructive criticism) but I loveeee advertising and want to make this work for me. smile I started writing this out as a new post, so if it has that "never posted on here before" feel, please disregard that as I wanted to try a second time to get my point across so I can come to a decision about whether I should be a CW or AD, even though some of you might find it redundant and I apologize for that.
Just wanted to ask for some advice. I am currently in ad school and my discipline now is copywriting. I have always loved "visuals" but decided on copywriting recently because I love to write, am quirky and witty (which I hope are good things, hehe). I started out with an art direction discipline but switched in my 3rd quarter to CW because I was not too turned on to layout, design and Creative Suite, etc as much as I loveeeeee "visuals", but it just seemed way too complicated. Unfortunately, I went into adveritising school thinking that once we graduated, we would work with a Graphic Designer (or in an agency, they would have a in-house designer) who would help us finalize our ideas and give them life to show in a portfolio. But it occurred to me in my 3rd quarter that I WOULD BE THE ONE DOING THAT! LOL Maybe there was a misunderstanding on my part about the role of an art director, I guess. I have been told by my teachers that I can think both visually (love crazy wild scenarios and images) and with words. In fact, when I concept with a partner on a product/assignment, I end up coming up with alot of the visuals most of the time besides the good copy (I am not saying I am the bomb or being cocky, but my partners usually like my visual ideas and then add their own touches to the visual solution) . By the way, I got alot of answers from the "Pick Me" book by Nancy Vonk and Janet Kestin about my concerns but I figured I*d also ask ad professionals on here too to get some more feedback.
My concerns are
1 When I go job hunting, can I market myself as a CW with an Art Director side? The book says that one can, as long as one can think visually and is good at it. And that I can ask to be hired in either field. (Except I would have to learn about layout and start loving Creative Suite, LOL).
2 I am afraid that if I go into copywriting (as much as I love to write) I won*t be able to use my "visual" side of my brain anymore or contribute to an ad with my AD partner. If anyone gets what I am trying to say, please help! smile
I am still iffy about my recent decision to change disciplines in school but I think it was for the best as I loooooooooove advertising, have been told I got some great ideas, am creative and I want to stay in school and become something of a CREATIVE. Also, can I switch from CW to AD in the future, if I end up in a good agency and if I decide I want to learn art direction while I work as a copywriter? I guess maybe I should stop having to decide between both for now, as I seem to LOVE both disciplines and then decide once I find an agency job?
What do you guys think? Any feedback would be great! Thanks!
Mousey
By the way, I did learn that at one time, Copywriters mostly came up with all the great ideas and the Art directors were the one*s who made it look pretty. Is that right? Nowadays, it seems to be a collaborative effort and both usually take credit for the visuals. I am hoping as a CW I can still be able to participate in coming up with that one great visual. After all, what attracted me to advertising was the VISUAL aspect of it all. Slogans and copy were second, as much as I love copy. If not, I think my only other option is to stick with my AD discipline in school and start loving Creative Suite and all those programs. I know I will need them in order to be a successful AD, that is if I find a job! smile
PS- Sorry for the long post. smile
By the way, if not to confuse you all even further! I had mentioned in my previous posts that I started out a AD in my discipline in ad school and now am in 3rd quarter and decided that maybe I should get into CW instead. So I am about to tell my school administrator that I want to make the change to CW but want to make sure before I tell her next week. Hopefully you all can help me before I change disciplines. smile Hope that clarifies it all. It*s just that I happened to notice in my previous post that I said I was doing Copywriting now, which I am not. I am close to changing disciplines, but have not done it. I am still in Art Direction.
sorry for the confusion
Mousey
Art Directors who don*t do ideas are called designers. wink
No sorry that was mean, I take that back before the designers come and whop my ass with a T-square. But don*t think for a second that art directors don*t do ideas. The team relies on both halves on it being good at generating ideas. Copywriter has final say on words, Art Director has final say on looks. This doesn*t mean that AD*s don*t come up with lines and CW*s don*t come up with visuals (I find I often do the lines and my writer often does the visuals. I*m best paired with a visual writer).
In large agencies, there*s a studio dept that helps finalise the ads, as your car ad might have to be done for 20 differently shaped and sized magazines. Your job isn*t to be super skilled in the layoutprograms so that you can whip up 20 differently sized double page spreads blindfolded and with your hands tied behind your back. The DTP guys in the studio can do this.
However, the job has evolved, now that Art Directors also have a computer on their desk they are expected to be at least sufficient in CS. The studio might be a thing of the past, remember that you are competing with Art Directors who have ideas, love visuals and know every keyboard shortcut to every CS program ever. Also, design skills are a must. On some projects you*ll be given the brands design manual and need to be able to use it and still make shit look good (not all multi-national brands have great design manuals. Some have the worst fonts and colors in the world and you will be limited to using those colors and fonts only!)
Smaller agencies don*t have studios and need their art directors to be one. They also don*t have a full time proofreader and thus expect their copywriters to own a red pen. wink
Another good skills - don*t tease the designers, often you*ll need to work with them on bigger projects. Designers are an Art Directors best mate. Directors are an Art Directors best mate. Photographers are an Art Directors best mate. You need to be able to focus on the end result, make everyone work toward it, and let skilled people around you do their thing, you need to allow them to do the best they ever could. Coach good work from them. So ego is a bad thing.
Thank you, Dabitch.
I needed that feedback from someone in the industry. What you wrote sank in and makes sense to me. I will have to process this in my head and decide soon which discipline to aspire to in school. If I ever wanted to change disciplines after graduation (and I expect myself to still learn the CS2 programs even if I choose CW as my discipline in school, just to have that upper hand, smile ), I can probably market myself as either an AD or CW. So I shouldn*t worry about that for now and just stick to one discipline while I am in school. I can always learn layout and CS2 in my own free time.
I will have to let go of my fear of the programs as difficult as they appear to be! LOL ick. I want to have that upper hand. Glad you replied to my post again. Nice hearing from you, Dabitch.
thanks.
Mousey