Agency creative managers
Submitted by CopyWhore on Tue, 12/07/2004 - 18:28.
The job titles that you guys are talking about, may mean different things at different agencies. In some agencies, the "creative manager" may work with the CD*s to assign work or something completely different. In other agenices the manager of "creative services" has nothing to do with assigning creative work. If you are confused about what responsibilty they have, ask someone at the agency for the inside scoop.
Never leave your book or send your book to the studio manager or traffic/project manager. Their job has nothing to do with looking at creative books. Unless you want a studio (production) job.
In many agencies even the internal people have a hard time showing their work to the CD*s. Your book will have at most five to ten seconds of flip through time with a CD and then that*s it. Most likely your book is one of fifty or more if it*s a creative shop. I have known CD*s to be in the local office for all of 2 days a month at some agency*s. So if they have your book for a while and haven*t called you to pick it up, they most likely haven*t looked at it, honestly. If they did, then most CD*s I know would give it up to be sent back.
And believe it or not, since CD*s often have so little time, they will ask other people in the agency (an ACD or senior AD) to poke through your books first to weed out what they aren*t looking for.
Just my opinion as a CSD for ten years... every place is different and yes some places really are frustrating to send your book to.
eddy
Hi there, everyone...
I*ve been looking for a decent copywriting job for, oh, well, let*s see... about two years already... Went to ad school, won some awards, freelanced in Europe, did internships... The full fig, really. Anyway, it seems all my attempts at getting into this business seem futile... Especially this business of sending portfolios to the so-called "creative managers" (an oxy-moron if there ever*s been one!) at agencies...
Has anyone had any luck dealing with an agency*s "creative manager"?
Most of the ones I*ve dealt with came back with a bunch of excuses about my work. Rather than judge the ads as attempts at creativity, I get feedback about choice of font, size of client, number of ads in each campaign, color palatte. Which I suppose would be fine if I was an art director. But this kind of feedback seems more like they didn*t want to take the time to actually think about the ads—the content, the ideas—so they came back with a bunch of excuses that make no material difference to the book*s content whatsoever...
Is the secret to getting a job the use of Paladino instead of Trajan? Or doing ads for "Liquid Paper" instead of "Wite-Out"; or "Mercedes" instead of "Aston Martin"?
Has anyone ever been hired by a creative manager? Or is it better to strike up a dialogue with a creative director? I mean, of course it*s better to befriend a creative director... But is it more likely to get a job that way?
Any advice on how to seal the deal?
Any feedback is most appreciated....
Hey CopyWhore smile
I*ve been going through a similar thing myself. For the most part I*ve tried to go directly to CDs if possible, avoiding the "creative managers", unless directed by the CDs to send my stuff to them. It makes one less step for portfolio to travel (and creates one less way it can be diverted from making it*s way to the CD).
I*ve had some luck cold calling CDs I didn*t know and getting some contacts that way. That is if they aren*t busy, which can be a problem.
For the most part it*s not the creative manager that does the decision making, expect perhaps to decide if a portfolio is worth passing on to the CDs. Usually, that*s about all they do, collecting portfolios, sorting them by experience and the like, and then having them handy when a CD comes to them saying they need someone with 10 years experience who has worked on X,Y, and Z accounts. Then they make contact and usually set up an appointment with them and the CD for the lucky person. With all the portfolios they go through some of them are good at seeing talent. And some of them, are not so good (and wouldn*t know a good ad if it slapped them across the face). The easiest way to do avoid it is to get your stuff to the CD directly. And that way, if you get feedback on the ads, you know you*re getting it from someone with at least an inkling as to what is good and what is not. smile
heya
No, I never had any luck dealing with a creative recruiter/manager. Though I did meet a really nice one who was armed with a clue at TBWA NYC - she later became a headhunter instead.
What you say about their critiques is so familiar, especially the font part.
Back in the day, I'm showing a CR my portfolio, which contains a campaign for a leadning Telco. There's three commercials, a few outdoor and some double-page print. What's her [the creative recruiters] input? She'd prefer another font. My reply is just to stare at her blankly. I personally hated that font myself, but hey, this is a big TELCO here, one with a DESIGN HANDBOOK. It's not like I had any choice in the matter - the font was decided by the design handbook and that was that. So she glazed over all the ideas that created a campaign in all media (including radio) and just concentrated on the font - what a waste of time.
Worse is though, when they insist on speaking for the Creative Director - I've caught CR's putting opinions in the CD's mouth that the CD did not have. Vague stuff like "Goodby doesn't like these kinds of ads" (what kind? Print? Green? huh?) or stuff that goes direcly against what the CD said to me earlier like "Nakata would hate this." Oh really? Nakata was slapping his knees and lovin' this yesterday. Hello?
I understand why the title needs to be there, CD's at big agencies are busy people and can't be looking into every damn book that enters the agency. Passing this 'chore' on to another less senior time may be counterproductive... But the truth is, I have met too many CR's that are a pain, rather than the golden-creative spotters they should be. The talented ones become headhunters/reps it seems....
I totally agree with you, Åsk... These "creative managers" are designed to keep you OUT of the agency, rather than get you in... So they come up with a bunch of excuses, not an informed critique, about your work. And chances are, they wouldn't be able to give a proper critique since they've never made an ad in their lives. I know that's a kind of hard-nosed way to look at things, but come on, unless you've gotten your hands dirty doing ads, how can you really assess someone's skill?
It just goes to show how misguided this business is with regard to how they bring the next generation of people into the business. I could on and on about all the kinds of stunts I've had to pull in order to get noticed. And maybe there's a kind of creativity in that... But come on. We're here to make ads, not send biowaste containers with portfolios inside 'em.
I have to say, though, BBH London has the fairest system toward assessing eager beavers. They have a recruiter who's involved with ironing out the details once someone's been offered a job. But they give all the books to the mid-level creatives to look through. When I sent my book 'round to BBH, Verity Fenner got hold of it, and gave it a once over with her partner. And they could decide whether to pass it along up the chain of command. Though an imperfect system, at least it gets the work in front of people capable of making sound judgments about who makes good ads and who doesn't...
In fact, it wouldn't be a bad thing for other agencies to adopt. And with one less bureaucratic salary to pay, who knows? Maybe agencies could afford to hire more cows rather than milkers...
See the fruits of my suffering at www.lyleshemer.com
Gee Dabitch, I wonder who you*re talking about. lol
By the way, she moved to do the same at 180.
Looks like the cat*s out of the bag! I know exactly who you*re talking about now! And I haven*t been looking for a job in Amsterdam since I sent my book over to WK about a year and a half ago!
(ooops!)
Let the record show that I did not mention any names, nor horrible nicknames. Y*all just guessed due to that font-habit.
wink
managing creatives is like hearding cats anyhoe... wink
*meow* wink
Bark!
My good it*s a total zoo in here! Someone get the flea powder!
Hey gezellig, nice to see yas. Had a good new year I hope? smile
I recently went to an interview for a job at an agency that has been looking for people a couple times during the past year. When I met with one of the CDs I had mentioned that I had applied 6-8 months prior and he said he had never seen my stuff, which was sent to the Studio manager or something. Someone had to have looked at it I would think. Then again, maybe not. But it makes me wonder how often something like that happens. Which makes me worry. And then I realize, once again, that it*s always best to go straight to the source.
I used to sow a tiny see-through (fishing line) string around the zippr of my portfolio down the middle.
It would *break* or untie if you just zipped the book open (didn't get in the way)
about 45% of the time, the string was intact after leaving the book with a CR or traffic person at an agency for a full week or two. Proving that they indeed, didn't bother to even open it.
That*s depressing- and frustrating!
Worst part about it was requested to be sent after seeing my online portfolio & resume. I can understand it not being looked at if you just send the book without prior interest or whatever. At least that makes some sort of sense in that there are a good number of reasons why it might not have been looked at. But if you ask for it, and have it for a week or two...I mean come on. rolleyes
>>Gee Dabitch, I wonder who you*re talking about. lol
>>
>>By the way, she moved to do the same at 180.
She seem to have left 180 now, time to put them back on places to see again...
Anyone know where she*s gone this time?
I heard Springer but that was years ago.
she started her own place
http://www.sukoiamsterdam.com/